LOST Episode 5×12 “Dead is Dead” - Screencaps, Easter Eggs, Audio, & Analysis
April 8, 2009 by Jeremy
As predicted last week, this will be the hands down choice for episode of the season (at least so far). Unbelievable. Leave us your thoughts at 920-626-6086 for inclusion into the podcast. Our thoughts are below, but make sure to leave your thoughts in the Comments:
- We can pretty much confirm now that Widmore (for the most part) was telling Locke the truth about being the leader of the Others for over 3 decades until being exiled.
- In trying to put some dates to these events, it gets a bit hairy. Alex was born and stolen in 1988. When Widmore is banished, we see Alex swinging with Ben and she appears to be somewhere around 6 years old. It is obviously post Purge (which happened in 1992) since the Others are living in the barracks. This would put Widmore’s exile at about 1994. The part that’s a bit strange is that Widmore says he’s been trying to get back to the island for 20 years even though it’s now 2007, or 13 years after he was banished. Perhaps he was just using round numbers.
- Ben getting Caesar airborn was priceless. Nothing like a double barrel shotgun blast from short range. I was happy to see Caesar go as I didn’t care his character very much. His storyline seemed a bit pointless.
- It’s been made even more clear that Jacob is calling the shots on the island. All people need to hear to fall in line on something is that Jacob wanted it so.
- Ilana’s question to Frank, “What lies in the shadow of the statue?” was a very intriguing question indeed. Her character became infinitely more interesting, as it now appears that she may have some sort of tie to the history of the island if we assume that the statue she speaks of is indeed our favorite four toed statue. Does she work for Widmore? The fact that she knew about Peter Avellino and that Ben told Sayid they were knocking off members of Widmore’s organization would give her a tie to Widmore, not to mention the tie-in to the statue and the island’s history.
- What’s in the large crate that Ilana and crew were messing with (a couple of the numbers were on the side of the crate as well; we need to get a screencap up for that yet)? Accessing its contents would seem to be an integral part of their plan. Could it somehow be tied to Jughead? Just a wild theory / speculation.
- It also looks promising (based on the presence of the outrigger left on Hydra Island and the Ajira water bottles that were not-so-discretely flashed in front of us) that Ilana’s crew are going to be the ones chasing our former-time-jumping Losties in the outriggers, so it’ll be cool to see which one Juliet takes out.
- As we’ve seen in previous encounters (Yemi, for example), it appears Smokey can take on the form of a human to deliver a message. After reading Ben’s mind and judging him, Smokey morphed into Alex in order to scare Ben straight and get the point across that Locke was ultra important and that was not to hurt him, but instead listen to and help him. I honestly think Ben’s going to heed Smokey’s advice and become one of John’s “disciples”, but we’ll see.
- Speaking of Locke, as I hinted at, it looks like Widmore was correct (from 5×07; Locke: Why do you think I’m so special? Widmore: You just are.) in that John is critically important to the island and probably the end game of the show. The island chooses who or what it wants and people seem to fall in line with that.
- Is the war that’s coming going to involve Ilana and her people against Locke? Is said war the same scenario Walt was explaining to Locke back in 5×07 when they met up in NYC? If Ilana is working for Widmore, this wouldn’t necessarily seem to make sense that she’d be trying to hurt Locke after Widmore’s handling of him…unless Widmore was lying to Locke. Widmore told him that if he (Locke) wasn’t on the island, that the wrong team was going to win the war. Does Widmore secretly think he’s ensuring that his team (which would be the opposing team to Locke’s team under this scenario) will win if Locke is there? Enough on that one, my brain hurts.
- It was a bummer to not see Ellie in the island flashback scenes. She should have still been there in 1977, when we first saw Widmore with young Ben, but perhaps she had left the island by the time the more recent flashbacks had occurred (1988 for the heist of Alex and around 1994 for Widmore’s exile)?
- When Smokey judged Ben, did it not destroy him there because the island truly did want Alex dead, meaning Ben had not “disobeyed” by his part in her death? Charles had already indicated that the island wanted Rousseau (and subsequently Alex) dead and Ben seemed to defy the order at that point. I’m just wondering what would have happened to Ben if he had done everything he could to keep Alex alive. Would Smokey have judged him differently?
- It’s no secret that I have an affinity for Des and Penny, so I’ve been nervous since 5×07 that Ben may have taken out either or both of them, not to mention little Charlie. Then when Ben told Locke to apologize to Desmond, I really got tense. Needless to say, I was happy to see Des beat the piss of Ben. One thing that I can’t seem to get out of my mind, though, is that we never really saw the connecting scene where Ben gets out of the water and calls Jack…which would keep the door open just a crack to the idea that what if Ben still somehow managed to gather his bearings and make another run at Penny (Des is safe based on Ben’s comment to Locke). I’m sure I’m just being a worry wart, but hey, it’s Lost and you can never be comfortable.
- The game of Risk we saw set up in the barracks indicates that we’re not dealing with an alternate timeline version of 2007. Back in 2004 (pre time jumping by our Losties) when the Losties were living in the barracks (before Keamy’s team invaded), Sawyer and Hurley were playing that same Risk game and it appears to be set up the same way (see 4×09 The Shape of Things to Come) in 2007. This leads me to believe that the version of 2007 we’re seeing is an extension of the version of 2004 we saw before all the time jumping occurred.
Easter Eggs:
After we saw the four toed statue in LaFleur, we suggested Anubis as one of the choices for the statue. This hieroglyph looks a hell of a lot like Anubis…
Here are a few images of Anubis as a reference…
LOST Clip of the Week:
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Here’s a barrage of screencaps…use the left and right arrow keys to cycle through them.
Does anyone know what Ben says to “ghost” Alex? I rewound and captioned the thing and couldnt understand. He said something about Sawyer? Call me an idiot, just couldnt find it anywhere.
I’m pretty sure he said “I swear”
That would make sense. Just the fact that she got angry at him made me think he said something else. Thanks.
Was anyone else happy to see Caesar gert shot?? lol Once he said “Im calling the shots” I thought to myself..umm he’ s gotta go we already have too many people caling the shots on lost go away and BOOM ben shoots him..Sorry but one of the higlights for me! haha. No one talks to my lockers that way!! =)
was curious about why they introduced ceasar in the first place if they were just going to kill him off? he wasn’t nearly as bad as paolo was he?
ilana is getting on my nerves now. i wish lapidus had said, “shadow of the WHAT??” and slapped her around to calm her down a bit. but yeah, she had a gun…
Lol…. I’m glad they killed Caesar off… and can’t wait til they do the same w/ the bounty hunter chick.
great episode. to hell with caesar and illana. locke is king island.
Im pretty sure Ben said something about warts while being man handled by his daughter Alex. If it wasnt warts, then im sure it was similar to warts.
Yes agreed, to hell with Caesar…but i loved him smashing the high jump record for the island olympics…
The question is not WHAT is in the box, but WHO is in the box. My vote is Widmore.
What an awesome question! That had not occurred to me…
Why would he need to be in a box?
Do you think that Ilana and the other 316ers are employed by Widmore? I am wondering if Dharma Version 2.0 isn’t somehow in the mix too; what with the whole ABC recruitment process before this season.
What’s in the metal beach box? Was Sayid killing Widmore people? Is Ilana working for Widmore? Is Pilot Frank working for Widmore? Pilot Frank flies to and from the island seemingly at will. Something’s up with that guy. Which side did Sawyer end up falling on? He’s gotta be in the Smoke Monstor, Jacob, Christian, or Benry camp, right? Well …this was a pointless comment. But …I love theories, so throw ‘em at me.
If Pilot Frank and IIana are both working for Widmore, then she prolly wouldnt have hit him or disbelieved he knew what was in the shadow. She is on another suicide (hopfully) mission just like Naomi. Its funny tho, I think Pilot Frank just leads this boring life and is now living vicariously through people destined to be on the island.. hey, I would
So, if leaving the Island willy-nilly and having a wife and a child off the Island are grounds for banishment from the Others, then why wasn’t Ben banished? Do they need a worthy successor (perhaps in the eyes of Jacob) before they can overthrow the current Leader?
Also, is it me, or did Ilana’s comment to Lapidus sound like the same kind of “verbal verification code” as “What did one snowman say to the other snowman?” I wonder if Charles, in his desperation to find the Island again, has started working with Dharma. Perhaps Flight 316 was loaded with a vengeful bunch of Dharma recruits? NAMASTE, MO-FOS!!!
So since Charles had a child “with an outsider” and since Ellie is an “Other” we can say that Ellie is not Penny’s mother.
Unless Ellie was banished or left the island and is now considered an “outsider”.
A note on Ellie: she can be seen in the picture on the “Leader Monk’s” desk at the monastery Desmond was living in. She is in the photo with the Monk remember Desmond gets kicked out of the monastery. Not for drinking the wine, but for a “higher calling” directly into a relationship with Penny.
Does anyone see a connection between sparing Alex’s life and the start of all of the babies (and mom’s) dying on the island?
oo I was wondering about when/why the infertility issue was going to come about.. good one.
Is that Horace around the camp fire?
NO — But I thought the same thing. It did look like our old hippy buddy…
The key to the whole episode (for me) was the picture on the wall in the temple. Ben was obviously very interested, maybe even surprised, upon seeing it. So what’s going on in it? Supposing that’s Anubis, who is tied to pregnancy, and is the same figure as the big statute, then here’s the theory. Whenever the statue tumbled (and women could no longer have children on the island) then the Smoke Monster appeared. Look at the screen shot of the picture. Assuming Smokey is the zig-zaggy dragon looking snake on the left, and Anubis is on the right, doesn’t it look like Anubis is reaching out to, maybe even placating, Smokey? Now, without Anubis (that statue) around, Smokey is in full effect on the island. Thus, bring back Anubis, start having kids, renew life on the island, and no more smokey. If this is right, then the smoke monster is more of a curse on the island, not a protector.
Are you sure about Abubis having to do with preganancy? I’ve read that Anubis had to do with the dead in the afterilfe, as a sort of guide for them. Tawaret was a god of fertility.
Widmore never says he has been trying to get back for 20 years. The 20 years comment is made by Miles:
Widmore doesn’t mention 20 years in The Shape of Things to Come or The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham.
Widmore said it in Dead is Dead. While on the phone with Ben, he said he had been trying to get back for 20 years.
If the smoke monster can create a double of Alex, doesnt it also follow that Christian is probably one of its creations? If that is true you want to bet that Locke is a recreation also? All three were dead at some point. SM used the dead bodies as templates.
My old theory on Smokey was this: since the Island jumps through time, perhaps it went way into the future at one point and somebody put a nano-cloud security system in place. But when I saw the heiroglyphs and the ‘altar’ in last night’s episode, it seems that Smokey could be ancient. Just a guess.
Darlton has explicitly said on several occasions that the smoke monster is NOT nanobot anythings.
Since I haven’t seen anyone mention this thus far, I thought I’d posit my 2 cents:
Just because Smokey emanates from the grate in that secret room under the Temple doesn’t mean he’s Egyptian. That’d be like saying the electromagnet beneath the Swan hatch was created by Dharma, which we know is simply not the case. I got the impression that this is one of the main places Smokey comes out of from the bowels of the Island, and some ancient Egyptians and Indians shipwrecked on the Island, found that place, and created a shrine for it, incorporating it into their religious practices. The simple fact that the Smokey grate was in a secret chamber beneath the passageway beneath the outer wall of ground level of the Temple SCREAMS that we should be asking ourselves what’s underneath THAT room!!!
If you go back and think, TPTB have been smacking us in the face with this notion the whole time throughout the series… basically every Island mystery or part of the mythology stems from some underground source: the electromagnet beneath the buried Swan hatch, the exotic matter behind the wheel wall in the chamber behind/beneath the underground Orchid, Smokey traveling thru underground vents… and now the secret Smokey Summoning chamber which is itself behind/below the secret room in Ben’s house, not to mention the various layers and antechambers leading to/within the Temple. It’s all, both metaphorically and literally, been telling us to dig deeper.
The question is: How far down the rabbit hole are we willing to go?
And one more thing. With all the time travel we’ve seen thus far, and how it seems to stem from properties of the Island itself, Smokey (along w/ all the other strange properties of the Island; namely the electromagnet and exotic matter, even the Island itself or what’s buried beneath it) could be from the future, and somehow became stuck in the past. Thus it could be both ancient and from the future. My overarching theory deals with how the Island itself is future tech made by us humans, and the Island itself is one big crash site which keeps making crashes happen. Would be very fitting and mindblowing of Lost to have us, humanity, be responsible for all the mysteries that are boggling our minds (and those of the characters on the show)!
There was an old “Island is a crashed UFO” theory that used to go around…. a UFO might have a cloaking device (”not even god can see this island”), would need the ability to bend time/space to travel across vast stretches of space, smokey would be some sort of alien guard dog protecting the crash site, etc etc — But I don’t think anyone still considers it true (no one that I know of).
dang,
You may actually be referring to the theory I came up with at the end of S4. Thus far I haven’t seen anything in season 5 which majorly contradicts the premise of my theory, save Ms. Hawking being an Other from the past, rather than the future, and Widmore being an Other as opposed to Dharma (both of which, I would argue, none of us could tell based on the evidence we had till we were explicitly shown this season). In fact, I think much it has become more plausible, and I anticipate something very similar to one of my scenarios will be shown to us in the finale based on how things are winding up.
But again, I must stress that I now believe it is future human technology, not something alien. I agree that “it’s all because of aliens” would be too big of a cop out by the writers, while that might not be easy to see as of this version of my theory — again, it needs updates. However, I’ve also found in explaining that that waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many ppl immediately jump to alien when they see the word “spaceship”… Guess they forget that we’ve built quite a few of our own thus far in our missions to reach out and touch the heavens: Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Skylab, the Space Shuttles, Mir, the I.S.S., etc. Perhaps I should use the word “spacecraft” instead?
Here’s a link so that you can verify if it’s the same one you came across, dang, as well as for anyone else who’s interested in reading it. I’m thinking of updating it based on what we know now and more clues I’ve picked up on since, but regardless of it’s outdated state it remains in the top 20 rated theories on DarkUFO, and of those it’s 1 of only 7 which survive from previous seasons…
http://theshotglass.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=theories&action=display&thread=95
The electromagnet is created by Dharma.
Darlton have confirmed that Dharma merely found electromagnetic energy coming from that location, were building the Swan around it to experiment, drilled down to find the source, and accidentally unleashed the energy stored in the magnet they found (not unlike what almost happened to the construction team down @ the Orchid at the beginning of this season).
In turn, they changed the purpose of the Swan to become merely a “valve” that let off some of the resulting EM “pressure” that was constantly building behind the “dam” they setup by discharging some EM every 104-108 minutes by entering the Numbers into the computer.
Darlton have talked about this in their podcast, in “Secrets from the Hatch” on the S2 dvds, and on the S3 Blu-ray exclusive feature “Access: Granted.”
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Swan#Electromagnetism
The picture on the wall appears to be of Anubis communicating with Smokey, therefore suggesting that this is the place you go to be judged/to contact Smokey. Besides being connected with childbirth, Anubis is also a prominent figure in underworld/afterlife mythology. Unless I’m mistaken he was also involved in the judging/passing of souls?
>Ben getting Caesar airborn was priceless. Nothing like a double barrel shotgun blast from short range. I was >happy to Caesar go as I didn’t care his character very much. His storyline seemed a bit pointless.
I couldn’t get past his accent long enough to focus on his character. Every time he opened his mouth, I heard Hank Azaria in America’s Sweethearts.
“Are you making fun of my accent?”
I’m not convinced that the statue is Anubis. Obviously it’s being set-up so that is what we are meant to presume, but come on, its Lost! The statue being Anubis would be too easy an answer.
I just wondered what anyone thought about the fact that in the engraving of Anubis on the wall, he is sitting crossed legged - thus obscuring his feet? Wouldn’t it obviously be a dead give-away if he either had or didn’t have 4 toes?
The statue is Tawret. The picture is Annubis.
I wouldn’t hang my hat on either god/goddess, yet.
Anubis generally is shown with tall, spiky hyena ears, but otherwise seems to have a similar “stature.”
I read this description of Tawret’s common depiction lately:
“She was depicted as the combination of a crocodile, a hippo and a lion. However, unlike the composite demoness Ammit she had the paws of a lion, the back of a crocodile and the head and body of a pregnant hippo but with the addition of a woman´s hair. She often wears a short cylindrical headdress topped by two plumes or the horns and solar disk of Hathor” - http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/taweret.html
I’m just saying I think it’s a bit early to call either option conclusively…
Sorry, above ^ I meant to say jackal ears, not hyena ears. (I have no idea what hyena ears look like, lol)
Also, fwiw, I will say that the head in the small pic of Tawret on that page (linked above), does have a similar look to the back of the head of the four-toed statue at least.
Hi,
Very good episode and the next should be interesting.
I think i saw Sayid in this episode !
Watch by yourself !
http://magicfan71.free.fr/LOST/LostS05E12Sayid.png
Not to sound weird or anything. But in the very first photo w/ the Anubis looking thing kneeling to snakey…. At the very bottom, the first little guy…. is he sporting a huge erect dong? o_O
Totally agree that this was the best episode of the season! I am intrigued by your prediction that Ben will heed Smokey and actually become a John Locke disciple. I just don’t think he’s completely capable ….but hey maybe that will be his redemption. Its weird that Smokey let him live, when it took the trouble to take the form of his murdered daughter, throw him up against a wall and call him a bastard….but then who doesn’t do that to Ben. I wonder what the pilot of flight 815, and Mr. Ecko did that outdid Ben..or maybe its not really about judgment but about the threat or purpose you serve for the island.
After that whole experience with Alex…his so called daughter… all Ben can say to Locke is “it let me live.” It kind of made me wonder whether Ben really cares about anything but his own personal agenda/manipulation of the island. As a parent… Ben’s reaction didn’t seem human…only being concerned about his own spared life… what about his daughter??? no parent I know would be relieved in that situation the way he was…but Ben is not most people and he is totally incapable of ever telling the whole truth.
Why does he lie so much!!! Why can’t he ever tell the truth about anything? Does he have some type of personality disorder that might be corrected with medication? What happened on that island after he was healed at the temple that made him such a sadistic smirking bastard?
I do think that if there ever was a chance for Ben to change now is the time to do it. If the island is as powerful as he truly seems to believe it is… it doesn’t seem like Ben would ever go against that.
Thank God little Charlie Hume walked out of that cabin when he did…. instantly I recognized Ben’s connection, just like Sawyer couldn’t scam the husband and wife with a little boy…. Ben couldn’t kill Penny, and leave another little boy like himself to grow up motherless. And thank God… but how the hell did Desmond get up and whale on him like that??? Was he wearing a bullet proof vest? Hmmm… do you think he could have forseen this in one of his flashes…he did save Charlie Pace’s ass like nine thousand times, it would be too bad if he couldn’t do it for himself. Maybe good old CP came and paid him a visit on his way to see Hurley.
Great episode… can’t wait to hear more discussion and reactions.
“all Ben can say to Locke is “it let me live.” It kind of made me wonder whether Ben really cares about anything but his own personal agenda/manipulation of the island. As a parent… Ben’s reaction didn’t seem human…only being concerned about his own spared life… what about his daughter??? no parent I know would be relieved in that situation the way he was…but Ben is not most people and he is totally incapable of ever telling the whole truth. ”
Relieved? Ben was not relieved to be alive, in fact I think he was devasted, lost, like he had lost all his marks. And yes Ben cared about Alex, he was almost crying while being judged, when the monster show him pictures of Alex death. The whole judgment and the treatment “Alex” gave him, let him near broken for me. and no, I don’t think that Ben is only concerned about his onw spared life, think of it, for him being let alive for obey and serve locke is the cruelest of the punishments… When he said to Locke “It let me live” he was really shoqued and lost. The fact that Ben is always lying don’t mean that he don’t care about anything. And that the death of Alex let him cold.
Also, Ben really cares. he didn’t kill Penny because he saw Charlie. If he didn’t care, then he could have kill Penny and the boy.
When Ben visited Widmore in the middle of the night in S4, he appeared very hasty towards him. And when Widmore told Ben he will get his island back, Ben should have been able to say something like “if the island wanted you back, you would have found it” but he didn’t and it doesn’t appear to work in Widmores favor. Ben seems to be in control over this situation.
If Ben was really working for “the island” or Jacob- and they had control over destiny then he wouldn’t have to take all the precautions he takes in keeping Widmore away. This would then suggest that “the island” does not pick and choose who can come to the island, but rather people do.. like Ben, Matthew Abaddon (when alive) and Ellie.
There was also a block of time missing from this episode that explains to us why/how Widmore was exiled, and the procedure leading up to. It’s no mystery that Ben lies and manipulates, so how do we know he didnt scheme some way of getting Widmore off the island.. by stating “Jacob” says you have to go? Maybe Jacob didnt say that. And if Ben lied about that then I guess the smoke monster doesnt judge (or care) about Widmore being falsely kicked off the Party of Island. Dang, I even make my own brain hurt.. back to work!
-K
I have an interesting theory about the breaking of “the rules” and Ben’s statement when Alex was killed.
Ben claims Charles broke the rules, so he had to leave. He also claims that Charles is wrong in thinking that the island wants Alex dead.
Charles basically (and pretty confidently and calmly) says Ben is wrong, that the island does want Alex dead, and once the island finally kills her Ben will realize he has been wrong all along, and will end up in the same situation as Charles.
We know that Ben is an opportunist, and we also see that he had a soft spot for the baby, both of which would compromise his objectivity on “what the island wanted”. Ben has lived for many years with a firm belief that he was correct and that he was supposed to banish Charles for breaking the rules and take over as the leader that the island wanted, so it’s firmly set in his mind. He’s also lived with the challenge made by Charles that “one day Ben will realize the truth”, to which he is surely in major denial.
When Alex is shot and we see Ben’s reaction, he says “he broke the rules”. We’ve all assumed that statement was about the act of killing Alex breaking some rule in some way, but my thought is maybe the statement is simply him struggling with the denial that Charles was right all along - as if to say “No, Charles broke the rules (by having an off-island life), and I did the right thing. I know it. I did right. This can’t be happening - that would mean I’ve been wrong all along.” It would be the unraveling of his very existence as leader of the island and the purpose of his life, as well as losing his “daughter”.
If so, it would make that line a very well disguised red herring, spinning us all into all sort of theories about what rule Charles broke, when in fact he didn’t break any rules and was right all along!
The “loophole” that mystery man was refering to is when the plane crashed he took over Christians body. All other bodies on the island were buried. Christian was in the cabin where Jacob was supposed to be. Ijjana stated that someone else had been using it. When Johns body crashed on the island, mystery man then took over it. In the end of season 5 Jacod states he found his loophole to John i.e. mystery man. Mystery man states You don’t know what I had to go through. This is one of my theories.